HEAD AND SHOULDERS ABOVE US ALL

Posted by Unknown On Thursday, November 19, 2009 107 comments
Of late, I have been wondering about the greatness of some leaders to remind myself that all is not lost in the brave pursuit for a renewed, revived and reformed Malaysia. With the dearth of genuine leaders of caliber, I was greatly encouraged when someone told me about Dr. Lim Hock Siew, a Singaporean who holds the record of being the second longest serving political prisoner. Yup- you read it right. While many may wax lyrical about Singapore, the untold story is that they have their own version/practice of ISA.

Dr Lim, a founding member of Singapore’s ruling PAP, was incarcerated for 19 years without trial from 1963 to 1982 on “suspicions” of being a “communist”. Singapore’s longest political prisoner is Mr Chia Thye Poh, who spent 32 years behind bars, longer than Nelson Mandela and Aung San Suu Syi.

When I first watched the following video, I was awestruck by this humble, gentle-looking elderly person - soft spoken and yet radiating a strength from his eyes and not by sheer force of personality. I had to turn up the volume of my speakers and at certain times was miffed by the sound of laughter that drowned the sincere voice of a giant called Dr. Lim.

The video was taken of Dr Lim during the book launch of the “Fajar Generation”, a book relating the history of the University Socialist Club and the politics of post-war Malaya and Singapore.

In the video, Dr Lim first described the ordeals he had been through as a political detainee, including being placed in solitary confinement in the most “hideous” prison in Singapore – the Central Police Station:

“That was a place not fit to keep animals let alone human beings. The place was so dark, so stinky and so ill-ventilated that you cannot stand inside for more than 24 hours but I was locked in there for 24 hours a day and the whole place was infested with bugs. I had a lot of bugs for company, no reading material and the light was so dim that I could hardly see the crease of my hand.”

On the basis of principles which he held dearly and not because of pride, Dr Lim did not relent to the demands of his captors to renounce politics and show “repentance”.

In the course of his career as an activist, he had tried to challenge and overturn the government’s decision to detain him on several occasions to no avail. When he was released from detention briefly due to a technical error, he was re-arrested a minute later by the Special Branch.

Upon his release in 1982, Dr Lim retired from politics altogether . Very few young Singaporeans have heard about him or his colleagues in the opposition Barisan Sosialist. I am sure many Malaysians have not heard of him either. I would encourage you to watch the following video not once, but many times, to hear for yourself, the horrible experiences that he went through.

And as you do, please remember the other ISA detainees in Malaysia, Singapore and other places that practise this archaic law that has outlived its original usefulness and then to step up our effort to lobby for this law to be abolished once and for all.

"You must say something to show repentance," the ISD officer told his captive, "otherwise Lee Kuan Yew will lose face." Dr Lim Hock Siew recounts his 20-year ordeal under the caprice of the PAP Government. The speech is peppered with humourous remarks, but Dr Lim's horrifying experience is anything but that. This is a video, courtesy of Mr Martyn See, that everyone in this world, must watch.

Dr. Lim, you have my deepest and utmost respect for the integrity, courage, conviction and commitment you have shown to your cause, beliefs and principles.

Did you know that Singapore Law Minister told an American audience a few weeks ago that the ISA is not abused in Singapore and there are “proper” procedures in place to safeguard the welfare and rights of the detainees?

He did not elaborate the “proper” procedures in place to safeguard the welfare and rights of the detainees”.

Dr. Lim paid the price for integrity = 20 years of his life. I have tears in my eyes as I type this. How many people would have been able to withstand the aftermath of paying such a heavy price of freedom for ideals and then to emerge from it all with a deep sense of peace and with an even stronger conviction? Innocent ISA detainees (past and present) all over the world must be remembered. People such as Dr. Lim, Said Zahari, Dr. Chia Thye Poh (the longest serving prisoner of Conscience in the World); Lim Chin Siong (deceased) and the many unsung heroes must not be forgotten. Their sacrifices must not be swept under the carpet of sanitized history. For the benefit of our children and their children and future generations…to come, this story and that of many ISA detainees must be told.

The cruelty must never be allowed to happen again.




Read Dr. Lim Hock Siew's 1972 press release OVER HERE.

A review of THE FAJAR GENERATION can be accessed AT THIS LINK.

Once you finish watching the video, please pass it on and leave a comment if you like. Perhaps by then, you will be both teary-eyed like me and inspired to fight for the abolishment of the ISA. Truly, Dr. Lim stands head and shoulders above us all!

Take care, dear reader and have a pleasant evening thinking about the message and legacy that Dr. Lim has left with us.

107 comments to HEAD AND SHOULDERS ABOVE US ALL

  1. says:

    A Arthur I beg to differ, MWS. I read about this Dr Lim Hock Siew years ago and am a bit familiar with Singapore history. We cannot equate the incarceration of DLHS to the ISA we have now. Then in the early 60s DLHS were together with LKY but their ideology clashed. DLHS was leaning towards the left while LKY was for democracy. One must remember that when Singapore ceded from Malaysia she had no resources on her own and she could not depend on Malaysia to be their hinterland to build their country and sustain their economy by just the entrepot trade. At that time the greatest threat to Singapore was communism and it could destroy the whole island if it would be allowed to take roots. So LKY purged ruthlessly all those with left leanings and rule Singapore with an iron and clean hand. DLHS was also unrepentant and did not see eye to eye with his co-founder of PAP. Now if you look at ISA, its purpose and direction have changed totally. Previously it was used to detain suspected communists during the Emergency as well as those agent provocateurs during the Confrontation with Indonesia who were a threat to the security of the nation. But now BN conveniently used it to detain political opponents and activists. The political climate and landscape of many countries have also changed for the past twenty years, as China and a lot of communist countries opened up to world trade. We just cannot compare the incarceration of DLHS with what the BN is doing to ISA detainees now. I too sympathize DLHS for his long incarceration in prison and for his stubborn streak ideals but I would think that his detention at that time was justified.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Arthur

    :-) You are blinded by your utter devotion to LKY. I am preparing my rebuttal so do swing by again later ok?

    It is always good to have a lively debate and we can always agree to disagree because each of us is entitled to our own opinion :-).

    I truly hope other readers will step forward to air their views. Whilst I may admire LKY in some ways, I must say that many are NOT aware of the authoritarian dictator in him, which in many ways, is akin to the most evil man in the country. After all, they were in the same university.

    Thanks for your passionate response.

    Cheers

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Arthur

    I think you have to put things in the right perspective. Put aside your hero worship of Lee Kuan Yew. Yes, in SOME ways, he is a good man BUT he is no angel nor prophet.

    It always saddens me greatly to read stories on political victims in anyway in the world. An incarceration is an incarceration IF it is unjustified regardless of ideological clashes.

    Now, let's look at it this way. You like LKY unabashedly, wholeheartedly and with due respect, may I add blindly. Just because I do not agree with you does not mean you are not my friend and that I should put you in prison for 19 years, does it?

    By virtue of using the draconic ISD (Singapore) or ISA (Malaysia), totally innocent victims can be made victims as they have NO way to seek greivance… since NO TRIAL is needed. It is really sad that such barbaric methods are still being used in our own backyard. And so are you telling me that you SUPPORT DLKS's incarceration because he is unrepentant? Let's see why LKY wanted him to repent. The quote is to save FACE and what was DLKS's response? Then it is a face not worth looking at or sth to that effect.

    Personally, I find it even more saddening when people conveniently disregard and forget about these people who had once fought for a JUST CAUSE to an extent that they have gave up and sacrificed a significant amount of their youth and freedom. And Dr. LKS is one of them.

    Mandela served 27 yrs as a political prisoner for a purpose… South Africans still remember him upon his release… but how about people like Dr Lim and Chia Thye Poh? Did anyone gives them a damn when they are released? In fact, how many Singaporeans have heard of these fighters before? By my reckoning… few and far… almost zilch among the younger ones…

    Are we such a hopeless lot that we abandon a fight for human right because of a youthful hero worship of LKY? What abt those who hero worship TDM or AAB. Some think such people are doing stupid things and wasting time. Such is the kind of apathy in our society that, I feel, will very likely lead to moral, spiritual and political decline since no one feels the need to fight for the nation. And what will that mean? The loss of the soul for the nation!!!

    Can you continue to keep up with such a charade without a soul if you endorse Dr. Lim's incarceration?

    Think about it deeply. Touch your heart. Put aside your adulation of LKY...perhaps now you can see things in the right perspective when you realize and acknowledge the core issue of human rights.

    Thanks and no hard feelings ok?

    Cheers

  1. says:

    A Arthur LKY has to be ruthless to rule Singapore as a nascent country with so many threats around her. I also remember the Housing Minister (HDB flats), Teh Ching Wan where he took S$400,000 from a contractor in bribes for favorable treatment and additional contracts. TCW was a very close and contemporary friend of LKY and LKY hit the roof. He forced him to resign and degraded and shamed him publicly. Just to make him an example of him that Singapore cannot tolerate corruption. Such was his ruthlessness even to close friends as LKY is a great statesman who loves his country more than he fellowsman. Yes incarcerating DLHS for that long is not justified and i would not think it is a matter of face for LKY to ask him to repent. Now incarceration of a person with opposite political ideals or activists is wrong as the stage for the whole world politics have evolved such that human rights are respected.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Arthur

    Your response to my rebuttal is a fallacious argument of appealing to higher forces.

    I am sorry to tell you that the example you have is totally out of point, thus your counter argument is completely invalid. How delightful of you to concede victory to me.

    Most delicious heheheheh!!!!

    Infringement of human rights and corruption are are far as the east is from the west.

    Secondly, just because there are threats is no justification for ruthlessness. We are humans and not animals.

    Thirdly, dear Arthur, you dug your own grave!!! Your last sentence contradicts your first input!!!

    Your kindness in conceding victory to me is definitely chivalry that is as rare as the dinosaur!!!

    Splendid!

    Cheers

  1. says:

    A Arthur Teh Ching Wan subsequently commit suicide and LKY showed no remorse. We also cannot compare Mendala for his incarceration as at that time apartheid was the scrouge of South Africa. Mandela kept his sanity for those 27 years because he loves his country. Just give me a name of the ruling coalition as a great statesman - one who loves his/her country that he/she loves money. i cannot think of any. But LKY loves his country and the means justified the end.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Arthur,

    I am deeply saddened by your persistent insistence on following Rod Stewart's original vocation of being a grave digger hehehehe :-). Sorry - just being cheeky :-).

    You see - once again, in your blind idealistic loyalty of LKY, you have failed to realize and to acknowledge that the ruthless and almost emotionally sterile attitude of LKY to one who is, in your words a very close and contemporary friend caused LKY to hit the roof thereby leading to the tragic suicide.

    So are you telling me that it is justified to incarcerate someone for 19 years because of ideological differences?

    Are you then endorsing LKY's insensitive and mercenary reaction to Teh Ching Wan? Again = saving face is important to him but is it right to penalize someone to the extent of driving a man to take his own life all because of S$40k? Doesn't it sound a bit close to home?

    I included Mandela as an example to reinforce my point that all the sacrifices that many people make for ideology or for a cause, more than often, go UNRECOGNIZED.

    On top of that, I do not think it is right to respond with ruthlessness in whatever scenario UNLESS it is life-threatening. If everyone had their attitude, surely we would not have to wait for Armageddon!

    Are you sure LKY is motivated solely wholely by a patriotic love for his country? Are you sure the means justifies the end?

    Think hard and deep, Arthur.

    Thanks for engaging me in this debate. I love it!!

    Cheers

  1. says:

    A Arthur Dear MWS, my last sentence is not contradictory of what I mentioned earlier. Now the political landscape through the world has changed totally for the last twenty years. Berlin wall came down and E and W Germany is united. The Soviet Union has disintegrated. And previous leaders like Marcos and Sukarno had being brought down. Even KMT has lost its long standing rule on Taiwan for the previous election and in Japan the LDP has for the first time lost. I think that a lot of these social upheavals and political changes for the past 20 years are more than that of 200 years. So one cannot really judge our present thinking to the ones made by great statesmen. I am not for the incarceration of political prisoners. I am arguing the fact that the incarceration of DLHS was justified at that time. I would think that for the betterment of the country it is better that LKY erred in his judgement by putting DLHS behind bars then to tolerate his communist leanings and perhaps influence Singaporeans and made the country hard to rule.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Arthur

    I regret to inform you that you are off tangent again and you have gone on a world tour to Germany, Soviet Union, Taiwan, Japan and then back to Singapore!!! Golly! How international and ASEAN can you be, my friend?

    You have lost me re the change in the political landscape weak premise that you have so feebly presented here.

    Your detour to a historical take of the landscape does not acknowledge that regardless of place, time and society - an incarceration IS an act that breaches HUMAN RIGHTS!!!

    Your last sentence also reveals that you are unaware or perhaps living in denial of the latent point of LKY's leftist slant. In all your readings and offerings of worship to your idol, did it not strike you that he IS an authoritarian dictator and that many are not aware that in some ways, Singapore is WORSE than Malaysia?

    Look at what happened to LHS during his detention. Is it every justified? And consider the manner in which the whole thing was handled and the offering made to LHS. Professional? Admirable?

    Once again, I implore you to give this much rational consideration.

    Thanks!

    Cheers

  1. says:

    Anonymous No two ways about this. A difference of opinion and political leanings does not warrant IMPRISONMENT INDEFINTELY WITHOUT TRAIL. It is unjust and inhuman as the victim cannot even pin a date to the release. It was not widespread and LKY could have easily used the courts to try him.
    ALso, was it necessary to prison him for 20 years, even when Spore had sucessfully settled to a stable and thriving economy??

    A strong leader gives stability to a country but too often, it comes at great cost, suffering and sacrifices. Only time will time if it was worth it. I salute DLHS and may God bless him.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 9.36pm,

    Thanks for your very precise and incisive comment. My emotional response to this very stimulating debate has hindered me from saying it as it is and you have done so brilliantly!

    Thanks for your wise observations and support.

    Take care and have a pleasant evening.

  1. says:

    Starmandala Anyone who assumes being "Communist" is the most heinous crime a human can commit will probably also equate long-haired men with drugs and promiscuity and very dark-skinned people with rapist tendencies. Thank heaven people like Arthur A don't manifest in my hologram! I have no personal chip on the shoulder against LKY (my father thought the world of him) but let's say that people like Kuan Yew are far more dangerous than any ism can ever be - simply because they're so absolutely convinced that they - and only they - are right. Indeed, I would lump LKY together with Mahathir, Mugabe, Saddam Hussein, Mao Tse-tung and Dick Cheney as reptilian agents driven almost entirely by left-brained logical programs and completely disdainful of the more "feminine" attributes of compassion, forgiveness, leniency and soul wisdom. In any case, Paula, there are thousands who think like Arthur A in Singapore and they are all trapped in the 3D Matrix. That's punishment enough, I think :-)

  1. says:

    Unknown My dearest Antares,

    *clapping + standing ovation*

    What a brilliant comment, my friend. By now, it is quite obvious that I am not a LKY fan and would join you in lumping him together with the unmentionables who are soulless reptilian agents who defile the face of this earth!!!

    The time has come to flush them out and down where they belong!!!

    And you have offered a very delicious and most graphic thought to end with, dear Antares.

    Brilliant, simply brilliant. Thanks!

    hugs and much love

  1. says:

    A Arthur I will digress a bit here on leadership. There are some useful principles in The Prince by Machiavelli. At the height of the Second World War Churchill had broken the Enigma code of the German Intelligence. And one night the Luftwaffes would be bombing St Paul, where at that time there were a few hundred thousands city dwellers. Now what would he do? Evacuate the city and let the Germans know that he has broken the Enigma Code or let a few thousand people died and save the country of many millions. He kept the codes secret and saved the country from destruction by the Germans.
    Now coming back to LKY and DLHS I am not arguing that communism was good or bad for Singapore. At that time Singapore was a multiracial country and the small tiny dot would collapse under a communist regime. LKY did not even tolerate the slightest dissent in his rule for Singapore. But he is clean, honest, hardworking and he will do whatever is best for Singapore according to what he thinks is right. As for China during the civil war between KMT and CCP, KMT was totally corrupt and USA backed it with superior fire power. But yet KMT failed simply because it was a corrupt regime. And democracy just did not fit the bill for such a large country at that time. The land owners were all exploitative while communism was communal.
    As for comparing TDM with LKY I totally disagreed. You can say that Lee & Lee law firm has a lot of clients because of LKY. That is honest money earned through honest work. And so far in all his speeches that I have come across I did not find any irresponsible statements made by LKY. TDM ruled for 22 years and he destroyed all the fundamental principals left by the British. He brought in cronyism and money politics. He raped the national coffers to benefit himself and make UMNO an elite and corrupt institution. That is TDM. And now look at all the venom he sprewed on Annuar now. And you cannot put LKY in the same category as Mugabe or Sadam Hussein. These are the real dictators and have caused havoc to their own countries.

  1. says:

    Anonymous Paula L
    Do you know singapore GOD LKY, His sister is Kuan Yim, Off course with his great merit will protect those idiotic Singaporean !!

    Singapore is not a country but a private own company, off course he can sack anybody if he dislike.

    antimamak

  1. says:

    Unknown My dear Arthur

    What do you mean by digress a bit here on leadershipLOL! By Jove, you have digressed in a 180 degree turn and I am tickled hehe.

    I regret to tell you that by far, this one is the worst of all the submissions that you have offered to me this evening. And with due respect and in honor of friendship, I have to tear it apart with my bare hands LOL!!! *grins*

    1. You started your discourse with a brief mention of Machiavelli's THE PRINCE but you failed to expound on the useful principles. Allow me to share with you ...I love his book and have studied it a few times...

    The types of principalities Michiavelli lists four types of principalities.

    * Hereditary principalities, rulers who inherited their positions.
    * Mixed principalities, rulers of territories annexed by other powers.
    * New principalities who acquired power through their own, through extreme cruelty and criminal acts, or through the will of the people.
    * Ecclesiastical principalities, which refers to the religious powers.

    Machiavelli recommends the following behaviors for the Prince:
    * It is better to be miserly than generous.
    * It is better to be cruel than merciful.
    * It is better to break promises if keeping than would be against ones interest.
    * Princes must avoid making them hated and despised; the goodwill of the people is a better defense than any fortress.
    * Princes should undertake great projects to enhance their reputation.
    * Princes should choose wise advisors to confide and consult with

    2. Then you digressed to Churchill and the broken Enigma Code.

    During the Second World War, when the Germans used the famous Enigma machine - which they believed uncrackable - to encode messages, and the Allies worked at Bletchley Park to decipher the code.

    You are wrong you know. It was not Churchill who broke the Enigma Code. It was Alan Mathison Turing!!! Check THIS LINK.

    You really lost me in your discussion re Churchill & the Enigma Code. So one down. Next point.

    3. You said:

    Now coming back to LKY and DLHS I am not arguing that communism was good or bad for Singapore. At that time Singapore was a multiracial country and the small tiny dot would collapse under a communist regime. LKY did not even tolerate the slightest dissent in his rule for Singapore. But he is clean, honest, hardworking and he will do whatever is best for Singapore according to what he thinks is right. I would like to pose a few questions to you:

    a)How sure are you that Singapore would have collapsed under the communist regime? On what basis do you make this claim and what evidence do you have to support this premise?

    b) Are you sure LKY is what you say he is? Have you heard of Tumasek? I agree with your statement that he will will do whatever is best for Singapore according to what he thinks is right such as in incarcerating dissidents!

    d)You said that KMT failed because of corruption. I disagree. It is more than that!

    End of part 1

  1. says:

    Unknown Part 2 of my response to Arthur

    Ideology has played a central role in the modernization and democratization of Taiwan under the KMT. It used the Three People's Principles of Sun Yat-sen in a pragmatic way, as some of its tenets were followed strictly, some were interpreted according to concrete needs, and others were ignored.

    The pragmatic character of Sun's designs facilitated the development of the KMT's ideology and undoubtedly facilitated its rule of Taiwan. Initially, the "people's livelihood" principle encouraged the KMT to carry out land reforms that laid down the basis for later rapid economic growth, while the democratic principle encouraged local self-governance that formed the basis for recent democratization. Sun placed election politics in a central position in the political constitution, and his plan has been largely fulfilled by the KMT in Taiwan.

    Meanwhile, the KMT's ideology has changed from authoritarian convictions to a democratic ideal. The KMT's elitist ideology has changed to a constituent-oriented ideology, and with this change to electoral politics the KMT is also converting from mainland-oriented nationalism to Taiwan-oriented nationalism.

    After your take on KMT, you broadened your discussion to China opening up to globalisation etc. Now my friend, this has nothing to do with the ISD lah....You have lost your way in this discussion.

    The only thing I agree with you is your take on the last scenario and it is safer not to discuss it for obvious reasons best left untold!
    So your last argument is a complete washout, Arthur. Let's battle again, my friend. Any views from readers??? Awaiting your learned response now, Arthur.

    My apologies for the errors in my previous response..too tired and almost brain dead!

    Cheers

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear antimamak

    Ah - yes, my friend...I have heard of that joke...Glad you brought it up again.

    How are you? Am pleased to see you in my blog with your honest comment.

    Take care and have a good evening.

  1. says:

    A Arthur Singapore is never a private company to LKY and family. When Goh Chok Tong was PM everybody jibed that Singapore was run by the Holy Trinity of The Father, The Son and The Holy Goh. Yes LKY was grooming his son to take over as Prime Minister and unfortunately at that time Lee Hsein Loong had contacted colon cancer. But LKY give merits when merits are due. LHL is also a brilliant public administrator. There is nothing wrong in grooming him to be part of the governing body. Then LKY also appointed Yong Pung How, who was his classmate during his law study, as the Chief Judge drawing him away as Chairman of OCBC Bank. Is it crony politics and is LKY trying to build a Lee Dynasty. So far LKY goes on merits and that what makes Singapore great to this day. And if anybody will to dent his reputation LKY will sue. FEER has to pay LKY for defamation.
    And if not for LKY Singapore would not be a successful story. It has a very strong currency. Its foreign reserves is among the highest in the world. Temasik is doing well, so what if Ho Ching, wife of LHS is running the show. And Singapore has the highest computer usage in the world. A number of top scorers at top British universities come from Singapore all because LKY has a vision.
    I also would like to reiterate that I do not agree with LKY to incarcerate DLHS for so long. He had his reasons but for that most foreign presses and media do not publish. I would state again that to incarcerate DLHS at that time was justified.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Arthur

    This discussion has drained me and I need to sleep now. Will respond next time and for the record, this is not me conceding defeat!!!

    Thanks for engaging me.

    Tomorrow will be a new day. new battle.

    Cheers

  1. says:

    Old Town Cafe The fact is that for nearly 20 years, LKY and his government was not able to produce evidence to charge Dr Lim in court.

    Arthur A is the greatest apologist for LKY i have come across. He himself is a prisoner of LKY's ideological spin. He can happily look forward to a lifetime of self-imoosed mental incarceration. Now that's the real prison.

  1. says:

    romerz Watched with interest this debate.

    I think MWS said it best when she said "How sure are you that Singapore would have collapsed under the communist regime? On what basis do you make this claim and what evidence do you have to support this premise?"

    That LKY successfully made Singapore what it is today does not exclude the possibility that Singapore would not have survived or thrived as a communist country.

    Sorry Arthur, MWS wins this debate in my humble opinion. Another thing, incarcerating someone without trial for having a different opinion is how dictatorships are spawned, no matter how the end result turned out.

    I think you have missed the point by ignoring basic human rights and those who would trash it just because they think they know best.

    Granted that in Singapore's case, it turned out well but that does not make it right.

    LKY is a brilliant man but like most men, he is not without his human failings!

  1. says:

    Anonymous What goes round comes round.
    LKY is paying the price which many may not recognise. His wife is a living vegetable.

    For all Human Being, be kind to your fellow living souls. You have your view and others have theirs. Do no harm to others and no harm will come to you.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Arthur,

    After about two and a half hour's of sleep, I woke up again to respond to the comment which you posted at 11.48p.m.

    Most humbly dear Arthur, I would like to ask you whether you watched the video which I posted here? If you did watch it, I cannot understand why you said the following statements:

    I also would like to reiterate that I do not agree with LKY to incarcerate DLHS for so long. He had his reasons but for that most foreign presses and media do not publish. I would state again that to incarcerate DLHS at that time was justified.

    Frankly, I have watched this video about 15 times. Really!!! I did not want to read the subtitles but listened up to hear the nuances and lilts in his voice to detect and to understand the paralinguistics and kinesics in his speech. Please watch the video again,in particular, paying attention to :

    *@1:54 where Dr. Lim said that it is not a question of pride but a question of principle and is it justified that this incarceration deprives him of his fundamental rights

    *@ 2:08, Dr. Lim emphasized that the main democratic right is a fundamental constitutional right of Singaporeans and no one should be deprived of their right and held to ransom to extort statements of repentance and contrition

    @ 2:48 Dr Lim explained that his incarceration was longer than a life sentence whereby detainees would be released after 13 years after the initial 1/3 remission

    @2:57, Dr. Lim emphasized that for no charge and no trial, he was detained for longer than life sentences

    @ 4:25 He revealed that on the charge sheets, there were a lot of blank spaces and when Dr Lim asked for an explanation, he was given a preposterous explanation that these were charges that were so sensitive that they could only be shown to the Advisory Board and not to him!!!

    He goes on to question how on earth anyone could defend himself against a charge that is not even revealed to him?

    I could go on and on but the point that I am trying to make, dear Arthur, is that you have erred in your last sentence. Watch the video closely and put aside your teenage adulation of LKY.

    Dr. Lim's detention at that time WAS NOT justified. He debunks every single accusation/theory/etc in this video. Watch it again with an open mind,heart, soul and ears.

    By then, I believe you will be converted and realize the folly of your blind idealism which has prevented you from seeing the true picture.

    Thanks for sharing with me your feelings and once again, I emphasize that we can agree to disagree but of course, I would be very happy if you agree that the ISA/ISD or whatever term is used, is abolished, not just in Malaysia but from the face of this earth.

    Take care and I will await your learned response again, unless you have wonderful news of your 'conversion' to share with me, my friend.

    Thanks. Here's wishing you a great day.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Old Town Cafe,

    My deepest appreciation to you for your sharp comment. I pray that there will be more Malaysians and Singaporeans like you who feel as strongly/passionately about this issue - perhaps then, we can see a new impetus in the way we lobby to for the ISA to be abolished.

    Take care, thanks and have a great day ahead.

    Best wishes

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Romerz,

    You have my deepest respect for your objective and erudite response to the post and debate.

    I appreciate your kind support and for standing with me in this issue and for being able to see this issue with eyes wide open

    Indeed, the fundamental issue here is NOT LKY or whether he has demi-god status but one where there has been gross infringement of human rights!

    Any sidestepping of this issue reflects a lack of commitment to recognize our fundamental democratic and constitutional rights in such a scenario.

    Thanks again. Here's wishing you and yours a lovely weekend ahead.

    Warmest wishes,
    mws

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 3.39am

    Thanks for the timely reminder. I pray that LKY and others like them will repent from their evil ways.

    May God show mercy on LKY's wife and grant her healing and deliverance.

    Take care and thanks for sharing.

    Best wishes

  1. says:

    Anonymous Authur A:
    are you singaporean ? or Malaysian who migrated to Singapore?
    1) Kiasu
    2) Kia Bo
    3) Kia Bo looi
    4) Kia Si

    Can you understand this 4 principles, if you can't get it in Hokkien, please ask you mum, auntie. this is how LKS brainwashing those Singaporean become ai bin !!

    Authur A . you never can change history. in fact we understand LKY more than Singaporean itself . Pordah ...

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 7.37a.m.,

    Good morning to you.

    I believe Arthur is a Malaysian...

    Thanks for sharing your view. Have a good day and a lovely weekend.

  1. says:

    Born2Reign Arthur A,
    Do you believe that everyone is innocent until proven guilty? Do you believe that Singapore has enough laws to charge someone suspected of breaking the law?

    On what charge was DLHS charged with? Just because DLHS disagree with LKY?

    The views of a Buddhist is so far from a Christian, and further from a Muslim. Shall we put all Christians and Muslims in ISD/ISA for opposing views on society and government?

    If DLHS is a threat to Singapore, then charge him under the one or more of the laws of Singapore.

    I don't doubt the leadership of LKY. A good leader is someone with loyal followers to act on his ideology, just like Adolf Hitler. So is Hitler more a leader than LKY, since he got an entire nation to destroy and murder a specific race? Are you giving brownie points?

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Born2Reign

    Good morning to you! Thanks for your very objective/rational arguments and thought-provoking questions.

    Take care and have a nice day!

  1. says:

    Anonymous I think Singapore Government must apologies and pay compensations to Dr. Lim Hock Siew for his detention without trial for 32 years.

    Why? Because over 32 years, the Singapore AG still cannot come and build a solid case to trial him.

    Can I say that ISA/ISD really makes AG dumb?

  1. says:

    A Arthur Thank you MWS for your comments and your readers’ comments. I must state that I am 100% Malaysian and I have no dealings in whatever business with Singapore government or with the Lee Family. Further, I would also like to say that I have seen the tape and that I am aware of my stand. I am not an LKY apologist but have been following his career and am an avid reader of all his biographies and other books on him. Moreover, although I am apolitical in Malaysia as I do not belong to any political parties, I keep an interest on our country per se, because it is going to determine the future of my children. I must reply to Anatares that I am not equating communism with evil. You just assume so from what I wrote. I do not blog but will make some comments on my stand on certain political issues occasionally. By the way since you are happy that I do not appear in your hologram I must say onto you that to have dissenting views on your blog will be good as not all people will have to agree with you, but their right to be heard must be respected. Moreover you lump LKY together with other leaders like Mugabe and Saddam Hussein is not a justifiable link. To a certain extend I would also not think that our former PM, TDM can be equated to these two leaders who have destroyed irreparably their own countries. Singapore has a great success story while Zimbabwe and Iraq are countries with one of the worst human rights. I must also say to Anonymous that one should not equate the karma of one’s life with the perceived evil deed done by his/her immediate family. Geok Choo, LKY’s wife, may be a living vegetable and she is very old. But it has nothing to do with the ‘perceived’ evil deed of LKY in imprisoning DLHS for 20 more years. And thank you MWS for your prayers for GC’s deliverance. It is so compassionate of you to have this kind thought. From the video we see a frail old man speaking about his unjust incarceration. I too have compassion and sympathy for this frail man who stands for his principals. But the circumstances that attended to him being jailed by LKY may not be known by most as LKY perceived that the greatest threat to the security of Singapore was communism and he had to remove this threat. Later on LKY also removed the jury system as he perceived that justice will take a long time to prevail (or readers might say injustice). But the courts of Singapore and its judiciary system are eon years ahead of Malaysia, where I would say TDM single handed destroyed its integrity. In the international arena if Singapore is such a place with no human rights it would not have advance so far. Even for major business contracts in Malaysia there would like the clause that if arbitration arises it should be heard in a Singapore court and not a Malaysian court. So LKY’s imprisonment of DLKS was a necessary evil at that time for national security comes first. I cannot say what DLHS said on his video are all truth. I am not saying that DLHS lied or exaggerated on what the PAP did to him. It has been so many years. I am sure readers will be angry at this statement but I made no apology for that. At that time the nation’s security came first and subsequently if DLHS still insisted on his stand for democracy (or more likes socialism) then he will have to sit out his years in jail. Now the ISA in Malaysia is a totally different ball game which is being used effectively to silence opposition politicians and I don’t see any serious responsibility on the part of the authorities to carry it out. It is all for self interest and not the interest of the nation per se. I am all for the abolishment of ISA or ISD. The world has changed and human rights come first. But we also have to respect history and give it its dues. One cannot blame LKY for the incarceration of DLHS while neglecting to see the bigger picture of Singapore’s success due to his determination for Singapore to survive and for Singapore to be a developed nation.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 10.05 am

    Very good suggestion indeed. Sadly, I doubt it will ever materialize though. The case of the comfort women is testimony of the fact that governments will not acknowledge their failings and are most reluctant to take responsibility of their acts. For some, history can be rewritten to suit their hidden agenda (hint - Hang Tuah et al).

    Still, I am certain nothing material or spiritual can ever compensate for the loss of almost 20 years of Dr. Lim's life or that of other detainees in other parts of the world.

    Thanks for sharing.

    Have a good day!

  1. says:

    Anonymous Arthur A,
    I beg to differ.
    Whether Dr. Lim is leftist leaning or otherwise does not in any way justify what LKY did to him and all those political detainees.

    How can anyone put a man behind bars because of his beliefs or his political leanings?

    Nano

  1. says:

    bakarmerah dear mws,

    I'm with Arthur A. But the way he writes without paragraphs making me giddy.

    I have to "explain" his Churchill Enigma code argument to you which you have failed to understand in yr point 2.

    What happened was even though Churchill could prevent 1,000s from dying he deliberately did not act on it! Because to do so would alert the Germans that the British now know their code.

    So it was like a big sacrifice for the greater n long term good.

    Like putting that fellow in jail. At THE time. I stress, at THE time, it was for the good of the nation.

    If yr DLHS was in power then, he wld PUT LKY in prison without charge too.

    Have you thought about that?

    Hallo, you are just sitting in a comfy chair la la la-ing about what might have been.

    The most major decision you have ever made is possibly what subject to take up for your phD or what's for lunch.

    So,hu hu hu.

  1. says:

    bakarmerah Dear all,

    What if the shoe was on the other foot?

    Justification my foot!

    I think DLHS would not hesitate to throw LKY in jail if it was he who was in control at that time!

    It's always very easy to be sympahetic now, in hindsight...

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 11.29 a.m.

    I agree with you as mentioned in my arguments. Thanks for your stand in this issue.

    Take care and have a nice day!

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Pug

    When I received Arthur's comment, I was reeling in a sea of words and actually emailed him if he could re-package his comment in different paragraphs that the rest of us may have greater ease in understanding his message. Alas, he was unable to do so due to work commitments but he has noted that point. Thanks.

    I did get Arthur's stand on the Engima Code but wanted to emphasize that it was not Churchill who cracked it per se but Turing.

    Still, I agree with the view of 'sacrifice for greater and long term good'.

    Maintenance of social order is the responsibility of any government - that I agree wholeheartedly and law-breakers must suffer the consequences of their law-breaking behavior. However, the circumstances of Dr. Lim's arrest was not law-breaking behavior but ideological differences. Have you thought about that?

    I am not sitting in my comfortable chair doing lullabies on broadway about this issue which affects every single citizen. I have given it deep thought, much consideration, read up extensively about this as a student and as a concerned citizen, taught about this in my classes where deviance, norms, social order and social control are concerned and stood together publicly with like-minded Malaysians.

    So this post is not a one-off post to fill my time but it stems from a heart that is awed by the giant of a man named Dr. Lim Hock Siew and also my stand on the ISA issue.

    If the situation had been reversed, judging from Dr. Lim's objective and analytical comments, I am sure he would probably have given LKY a fair trial/hearing.

    I have made major decisions in my life FAR BEYOND and ABOVE dissertation proposals or what's for lunch because I love my country and want the best for Malaysia, as can be seen from my posts.

    Thanks for sharing your view which I respect.

  1. says:

    bakarmerah Dear mws,

    Ahem, I see you are slightly upset.

    But after all your deep thoughts you are concluding that "...judging from Dr. Lim's objective and analytical comments, I am sure he would probably have given LKY a fair trial/hearing...?

    After that poor man had already been imprisoned for 190 million years, what OTHER comment do you think he dares make?

    That difference in ideologies bit could make or break a nation madam.

    I do agree it is inhuman. But given the circumstances?

    For example, I would imprison you too because you want all races to be equal here in my motherland whereas I think my race is superior and are the majority and we landed in Malaysia first and we want to govern all those who have less melanin than us and we want to be tuan in our own motherland and you must use our native language and we want to own 70% of the wealth and writing English feels weird.

    You see? It can get rather nasty. And panicky.

    You ada faham kah?

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Pug

    Nope. I am not upset. I love intellectual exchanges that stimulate a healthy forum for people to debate on issues rationally, fairly and objectively.

    What is important is mutual respect and the fact that people can agree to disagree and that, to me, is the hallmark of true friendship.

    However, I do get upset at injustice and when people get a raw deal or when a nation's resources are plundered or when minorities get a raw deal etc.

    We can allow it to get nasty and it is up to us to be panicky. At my age, after having weathered different storms at different stages of my life, I know what is real, of value,worth fighting and what I need to let go.

    We can only speculate but when I next visit Singapore or when I chance to meet Dr. Lim, I will certainly pose these questions to him, and I promise you and all readers, that I will do a post on it - to give all of us the other side of the story.

    Cheers

  1. says:

    Anonymous I read with interest and had watch the video of this elderly doctor and empathize with him.I was a Malayan/Singaporean/Malaysian and currently Singaporean 100% no sycophant of LKY/PAP but grateful for the standard of living achieved to allow my children to gain entry to University and graduate with Honors.Singapore is "HEAD AND SHOULDER ABOVE THE SEA OF GREEN AROUND" and it was achieved not without sacrifice.I witness the strikes,havoc and chaos created by the communists/socialists or whatever they call themselves at that time.Life was quite terrifying than what more with the Racial riots in 1964 when Singapore was part of Malaysia.Today,Singapore with a cabinet not without Malaysians that opt to stay in preference to Malaysia where they would not be able to show their talent, put Singapore a little REDDOT shining brightly in a sea of green.Was it worth it,should LKY not did what he did to lock up such hardcore leftist we would not be here today,most likely absorbed by KL and ending up at best like Penang or Malacca.Thanks but NO THANKS.

  1. says:

    bakarmerah intellectual exchanges: may be

    stimulation: a lot

    healthy: may be

    debate: ummm. .

    rationally, fairly and objectively: definitely not!

    friends: forever

    When you talk about ideologies, can never be objective. You either lean left or right. Throw in race and religion, oh boy.

    What I'm getting at is there always is "another side" and both will be as passionately opposed.


    I just read an article about Obama. Here's an excerpt:

    Obama has made clear that he, and the US, accept the universality principle. "I spoke to President Hu about America's bedrock beliefs that all men and women possess certain fundamental human rights,'' he said during his visit to China. "We do not believe these principles are unique to America, but rather they are universal rights and that they should be available to all peoples, to all ethnic and religious minorities."

    But others view it differently. In 2003, for example, when a resolution was put to the UN Commission on Human Rights opposing discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Libya, Malaysia and Pakistan joined forces to block it.

    Muslim nations could not accept the proposal, the Pakistani ambassador, Shaukat Umer, said. "This is a question that concerns the fundamental values of our society … It's an attempt to impose one set of values on to people who have another … We respect your value systems, but please handle those within your own countries."

    Similar arguments arise in many situations. Out of "respect" for its "culture and traditions", Saudi Arabia asks us to accept its treatment of women.

    Demanding respect for its national sovereignty, Egypt objects to EU criticisms of its human rights record and rejects international observers for its elections.

    Most recently, it succeeded in watering down plans for inspections under the international Convention Against Corruption – again citing a need to respect its sovereignty.

    full article is here:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/18/barack-obama-respect

    Even "human rights" is open to interpretation!

    You can also google it to find out about its history. Apparently, it has existed a long time ago.

    I thought it was the world wars that "invented" it. I was wrong, the great loss of lives in those wars only served to drive it out into today's "attention".

  1. says:

    insight What a good and interesting reading! Thank you all .

  1. says:

    Anonymous Thanks for a good &interesting reading.
    Will look forward to more .

  1. says:

    A Arthur Hello Pug, i agree with you that if DLKS was in power LKY would have gone to jail. Such was the politics at that time.
    However, I think your comment on MWS is out of place here and we should not go personal. I have found this blog lately and i have also found that MWS is very passionate and objective on this blog. Even if the comment is just a note of thank you MWS will reply you.
    So we should not go personal and said that all what MWS is to think of what subjects to do for PhD or what is for lunch.
    Anyway I thank all for the comments made. This is a very healthy discussion and if I wrote anything personal that may cause any of you unnecessary pain I apologize. I also wish to state that MWS is spot on when MWS commented that i am blinded with my devotion to LKY. I am a great fan of LKY and I have not even met him up in person. I read all his books and I am still hero-worship him as the greatest politician of the 20th century

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Peter @ 3.09pm,

    I am so glad to hear first hand from someone who has had the experience of living in both Malaysia and Singapore.Indeed, Singapore is a model Asian nation in many ways although it now faces internal threats with the rapidly changing face of the population which is now becoming more cosmopolitan with the influx of so many expatriates etc.

    Of course I agree that in many ways LKY did well to contain the riot but to detain Dr. Lim for 19 years and 8 mnths has truly exceeded limits.

    I really hope that other readers from Singapore will step forward to share their views here. I would love to hear your take on this.

    Once again, thanks Peter, for sharing your honest and passionate views here. Have a great weekend.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear insight @ 3.23pm, anonymous @ 3.28pm, dear Arthur and all commenters/readers,

    I just want to say a big thank you to every one of you for your contributions that have embellished my post so beautifully.

    I truly appreciate the fact that despite your busy schedules, you took the time to plough through my post, read the comments and to leave a comment and for some - to come back to check for more...

    Please feel free to use this space as a forum for discussion. I would be greatly honored by your contribution.

    Thanks and have a lovely weekend.

    Blessings and peace to all,
    mws

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Pug @ 3.13pm

    Thanks for sharing your comment with so much candour, wit, wisdom and insight.

    I do not take offense easily but I love a good argument, in fact delight in it :-). Such lively exchanges set our adrenalin flowing and makes us think!!! And the inclusion of the article you have shared with us is one fine example. Thanks!

    We need more of it....:-)

    Take care ker ker...

    Shalom

  1. says:

    bakarmerah Hallo Arthur,

    Thanks for pointing out that: "...we should not go personal and said that all what MWS is to think of what subjects to do for PhD or what is for lunch."

    Thanks for protecting her.

    You are indeed a gentleman, while me just a mutt.

    She has now banned me from commenting.

    I am now in the dog house.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Pug

    Aiyooo - I did not ban you leh...In fact in my previous comment, I waxed lyrical about you....tsk tsk tsk.

    Hugs to you for being sincere, open and honest in your comments.

    Hugs to Arthur for trying to make amends for being a LKY loyalist!!!

    Think what we all should do is to seriously consider how we can moot change - and lobby for the ISA to be abolished forever.

    Obviously, old methods did not work...So let's put on our thinking caps and brainstorm!!!

    Cheers

  1. says:

    A Arthur Hello Pug, Thank you for responding so fast. MWS banned you from commenting - no way lah. MWS will not ban anybody who writes comments even though it is not appropriate. Go write in again. and if our comments don't appear within 2 hours dinner on me. I will give you a phone for contact.
    But i am happy that this site generates a lot of interest. When it comes to talking about Singapore i am interested. But i have never thought of migrating there. Just my hero worshipping LKY, cheers to all

  1. says:

    bakarmerah King Arthur,

    As a seasoned old dog in forums n the gentle art of commenting, I really do know the protocol n manners of polite commenting.

    mws is such a sweet chick, that I love to pull her leg. Looks like I ended up pulling yours as well!

    Did you read her defence? Pretty hot n bothered huh? I just love to stir cow excrement.

    Of course if I do not know this mws writer I would not even dare to be so cheeky...or even so brave and (playfully) malicious. The incredible thing is: I only got to know her like 5 weeks ago...

    Now my cover is blown, looks like I have to behave. Woof.

    Mister A, you are also indeed a strange fellow, you should really migrate to Sillypore since you are dying to worship your distinguished hero leader. Think about it - it's a neat place. Even whoring is legalised there (not that I'm saying you should participate).

    But first things first, do break up your words with paragraphs to help readability.

    All you need to do is...press that "Enter" key situated on your right. It's above the "Shi_t" key (also on your right).

    BTW don't be offended, it's not a personal attack, ad hominem, it's personal attention.

    That would be more fun eh?

    I know she won't be offended because every time she posts a joke, she is ever so very careful, with so many "I hope you won't be offended..." escape clauses.

    You have a restful evening and you have just saved yourself a lunch!

  1. says:

    Anonymous As a Singaporean today I still yearn for a re-merger with Malaysia on terms favorable for all i.e.Malaysian Malaysia,1-Malaysia,True Malaysia or even Malaysia Truly Asia.Where all citizens are equal.

    Let me share an anecdote with all of you, especially Arthur who never had the chance to meet LKY personally.

    I was a union leader in a commercial house when Singapore left Malaysia.The call was than "THE FIGHT FOR SURVIVAL".The union leaders were invited for a private forum with LKY to hear his message.It was simple: Should Singapore fail what would happen to the majority of the ORDINARY people than mostly clerks, sweepers,labourers,port workers almost 50% daily paid without perks.They can't leave nobody wants them.The rich,professional,skilled will migrate.A Malay union leader stood up and ask what about you Mr. Lee will you leave???LKY answered in a low voice without the usual fire."As your leader, I will be too ashame to leave"That spurred the people to make the sacrifices and work hard accepting the bitter pill to build Singapore to what it is today"Arthur, you may know him through his books TV and write ups in magazine.We know him as a man who walk the talk,say what he means and mean what he says.Like I wrote earlier I am no sycophant but am truly grateful to him for the life he and his govt. had provided for us.Others may disagree but than even identical twins may differ in opinions.

  1. says:

    A Arthur Hello Pug, you see you didn't win me no dinner. I bet she will respond and will not bar you. And thanks for addressing me King Arthur. That is my idol when i was young and I kept this name.
    Yes you are right. Singapore is very pragmatic on everything. They know that prostitution is the oldest profession and they cannot eradicate it, so the best way is to control it. If you go to Geyland the red light district they monitored everything. Unlike Selangor the former MB would go and kick a few dens to catch prostitutes. What a shame. Ahh...never thought of immigrating to Singapore though i quite like the place. Security is first class. And all cars give way to pedestrians. I don't blog just a small time fella writing a few comments. I quite like MWS for it is a sincere blog and i only stumbled upon it lately. No offense meant and i am quick to defend MWS for my comments are published within an hour or less than that. So cheers to you....let me think about Singapore again...K Arthur

  1. says:

    Anonymous It's refreshing to see great debates with civil comments here. Didn't enjoy Pug's comments, but his/her point:
    "Even "human rights" is open to interpretation!" is indeed interesting.

    Judging DLHS would do the same to LKY if he was in charge without asking his stand on it is similar to not giving him yet another "trial". By doing so, you just indirectly approve the use of ISA/ISD.

    I also doubt DLHS will tell that he would put LKY in prison if he was in charge, even if this is what's in his thought. Because it serves no good to him. So, we should only put our view on what has happened only.

    I think no one will argue that LKY is indeed a great statesman. But he is just simply a man, with his errors. One of them was detained someone without trial.

    However, I disagree with views that someone cannot be jailed because of his ideology/principle. There's nothing wrong with it if this ideology is banned in the constitution. I don't know if communism was legally banned that time in Singapore. If it was, use it. Otherwise, make one first. If LKY ruled with constitution then, who knows, maybe Singapore is even greater than today.

    nugi

  1. says:

    A Arthur Hello Peter, thank you for sharing your experience in Singapore. I admired LKY for what he did to Singapore. That time the union was the worse to control. I have read that piece before and I knew that LKY will be able to bring his people in.
    The unions were the ones that bring down the great might of America. (My apology to unionist). A few years ago we were participating in a jewelry exhibition in New York City. We rent the booth, which as 10x10ft. And we have to rent the display counters which were 4 times higher than i bought it. But if i buy the counters it would cost me a lot of money cos the it was controlled by union. Then when they put in the display counters i have to take the electrical plug to lit up the counters. But i was not allow to do so. The point is just behind the counter. The labor union will do it for me. Just plug in and it cost me $100 + $8 tax. This is really ridiculous.
    Coming back to the issue LKY saw it that the unions also can make or break Singapore so he made a personal plea. That is vintage LKY.
    Thank you again for sharing.

  1. says:

    bakarmerah Greetings Your Highness King Arthur,

    I seldom blog as well but now this mws chick has so fired me with high flatulent praises that I am beginning to imagine I can even join a few sentences that actually make sense.

    You should visit my blog.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Arthur @ 4.49pm

    You are right - I don't ban people because I believe in freedom of speech but if there are profanities or sensitive comments etc, I do censor :-) but so far, this has only happened once this year.

    Dear Pug @ 6.01p.m.

    Tsk tsk tsk!! You also blew my cover by referring to me as a sweet chick LOL. Here I am trying to evolve into a new persona with new template, new profile pic etc and there you go setting my heart beating at a faster pace haha with reference to my 'escaped clauses'...Now what will I do without your dry humor in my life!! :-)
    ____________________
    Dear Peter @ 6.33pm,

    Thanks so much for swinging by again and for sharing that anecdote with us.

    Take care and please stay in touch.

    ____________________
    Dear Arthur

    Hey! Thanks for the kind words...Friends choose to agree to disagree :-)You can worship LKY happily ever after while I still gripe about many things sincerely :-)...Take care and let's cross swords again.

    Cheers
    __________________________

    Many thanks to readers and commenters...Please be at liberty to post your comments/suggestions. I would love to hear from you. Thanks. Have a pleasant evening.

  1. says:

    bakarmerah My dear sweet chickadee,

    Your profile avatar is a whale (do i look fat?).

    It is a tail of a whale (are you swimming away?)

    Can a whale write? Gigantic words perhaps?

    IMHO, your persona is slightly flawed.

    The background is so academic-serious-business like and the writer's nom de plume is master word smith and it's a sweet fat whale?

    puhllleeese...are asking us to save the whales? Or writers like you? Who are just bored...la di dah...

    No offence taken? Just being a mutt as always dear poo.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous ala Nugi @ 7.11pm

    Thanks for your very encouraging comment. Indeed the debate here has been quite healthy and civil and I have thoroughly enjoyed the exchange and interest generated in this topic.

    Thank you so much for your insightful comment re the DLHS vs LKY scenario and you are right in helping us put things in the right perspective.

    Also, I apologize for my myopic view of being jailed for ideological differences. Indeed you are right - when the occasion arises, such dissidents must be jailed but in DLHS's case, the accusations were not proven and he did not even get a chance to see his charges.

    Thank you so much for the reminder. I appreciate that you took the time to point this out, and most eloquently too.

    Take care and stay in touch.

    Blessings to you.

    _____________________

    Pug,

    You are an angel sent from heaven to teach me the diversity of the human race and how the power of the tongue should be used to build and not to destroy.

    I love whales!

    Blessings to you and yours always

  1. says:

    bakarmerah You love whales, you put in whales... ah my bad... i love frogs, i put in frogs? No, I put in Hell Boy!

    The perceived impression of your avatar dear lady! Some more hor, a setting sun! Or is it a rising star? wa ka ka.

    You are now a award-winning writer! At least an owl would project a wise image...for example!


    I also love the way you use the power of your tail to splash water in my face.


    Aiyaaa, it's your blog la, you can do any thing you want.

    Just my honest opinion. Nobody really cares ~ I'm just a splitting hair kind of animal.

    May you be strong and not be destroyed by petty silly mutts.

  1. says:

    edward Dear Paula & friends,

    Please pardon this JohnnyComesLately for coming in at this point. What an exciting discourse! Anyway I just want to say my piece and if I am wrong in any way, please let me know.

    IMO, morally its wrong to incarcerate a person without calling for his defence. It just goes against any sense of justice ,fair play and human rights. So Paula you are morally right.

    Having that said, I can understand why LKY did what he did. It was a very dangerous time. Race relations, trade union strikes, student demonstration etc can all bring Spore down in an instant. So it became a bitter fight as to which ideology and govt system would prevail. The Communist side is very formidable with many ntellectuals in their midst. People like Puthucheary, Lim Chin Siong, Devan Nair and others. Many of these are blessed with amazing oratorical skills and can easily work the public up into a frenzy, especailly so with the Chines middle school students - a hub of leftist sympathisers. So LKY being a shrewd politician as he was (and still is), rode on the tiger's back in order to obtain independence. At the right moment, aided by ISA laws, he struck a devastating blow to his communist partners. Communism in Spore never recovered from then on.

    I do not think Spore as a communist country will do well. She has no natural resources and depends a lot on foreign investment, tourism and influx of skilled workers. Her neighbours are staunchly anti communists and so are her big brothers like England and US. No western democratic country will invest there especially so when the Cold War feeling was prevalent then. She will never be at peace to thrive economically. Meritocracy will be non existent. She may well turn out to be another Animal Farm.

    We will never know why LKY chose to incarcerate his opponents for so long, way after the threat was over or why it never prick at his conscience. If he ever believe in God one day, this may come back to haunt him. Just my $0.02. Thank you for hearing me out Paula. Please correct me if I am wrong in my observation. Wish you a great weekend with many perfect moments with your loved ones.

    Warm regards,
    Edward

  1. says:

    bakarmerah Hey nugi,

    I enjoyed your learned opinions of "I also doubt,

    I think,

    I disagree.."


    and finally your "...who knows, maybe Singapore is even greater than today."

    Singapore today is not great enough? Name another country!

    Your tone suggests that you know every thing worth knowing.

    I await your further wise opinions.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Pug

    Appearances or images don't matter to me but I am sure they do to you because of your expertise and training. The avatar is open to either interpretation and to me, it is there for ornamental purposes. I am just a humble blogger and certainly not an award-winning writer as you claim. To me, it is the heart and the conscience that matter. Outward appearances can mask what may lie within and beneath the veneer of caustic hardness or nimble softness. It is from the heart that one speaks which is why Freud expounded his Freudian slip.

    Strength comes from above and within and I stand firm, both feet on the ground and will always face any opponent eyeball to eyeball in any scenario in the real or digital world.

    As it is, I would request that we stick to the issue at hand in this post and to divert our energies into thinking what can be done to lobby for the government to abolish the ISA.

    Perhaps with your experience you could volunteer a new logo, a new slogan or a PR campaign for the SABM or Suaram or Hakam groups that could revolutionize their campaign strategies. That would be simply brilliant!

    Take care and God bless you and yours always.

  1. says:

    Unknown My dear Edward,

    What a wonderful discourse you have shared with us this evening!

    *clapping + standing ovation*

    Thank you very much for your very wise, balanced, elegant and knowledgeable assessment of the scenario.

    Thanks for standing with me against such unfair detentions.

    More importantly, I appreciate that you took the time and made the effort to give us a very objective historical perspective of the scenario and a finely tuned economic and political angle to the situation as well. Your closing paragraph is testimony of your fine character for you have successfully weathered the storms of life with medals to show and yet you do not flaunt these but move and share gracefully and wisely. Indeed your humility is a wonderful testimony of God's love and grace upon our lives.

    My deepest appreciation to you for infusing my blog with this fragrantly refreshing comment.

    May you and yours have a blessed weekend with precious moments to be remembered...

    Shalom,
    Paula

  1. says:

    Anonymous It would seemed that the bogeyman had won the day. Many caught during the operation cold store was accused of being communist and advocated violent overthrow of the legitimate government of the day. In subsequent revelations by those caught and detained NONE of them actually were communist or had any connection with the communist. They were socialist but that doesn't make them leftist.

    It is like someone calling you gay and then refused to allow you the right of reply. The whole incident was orchestrated and much of it was fabricated to allow LKY to rise to power. If a proper and legitimate election were to be undertaken LKY may not have won the election.

    An uncontested truth can be anything - including lies and deception.

    The vincent cheng saga was another sad manifestation of a demented soul. I do not judge LKY, I can only pity him. Such ones needed understanding and compassion more than anyone else.

    The whole vincent cheng saga was orchestrated and fabricated. Those implicated didn't even know each other and yet a tale could be artfully created to link all of them. It was exactly like someone who used the various quotes from the bible to prove that jesus was gay.

    Singaporeans, by and large are very hard working and dedicated. Singapore's success should not be measured by what it had succeeded but by what it could have succeeded.

  1. says:

    Anonymous Hello,

    I have watched the said video and tears came to my eyes from around the middle of it.

    I share the opinion of Dr. Lim that time has passed. However the victims need some closure. I support Dr. Lim's call for Lim Kuan Yew and the Singaporean government to admit their wrongdoings, release all prisoners of conscience, compensate victims and apologise.

    At stake is Singapore's moral integrity and social development.

    Being thankful to LKY is not wrong. He has contributed greatly to Singapore's success. Who can say anything about what ifs? Who would believe that Singapore would surpass Malaysia in economic terms in the 60s? Who would believe a communist country can become so rich now?

    However blindly excusing him of his wrongdoings is wrong. I am not asking for an old man to be given a taste of the same medicine he meted out but rather let LKY and his victims come to a closure. It's the least he owes to them.

    Personally I would not want to live under LKY's rule. Sure we can have progress and prosperity but end of the day we end up empty.

    Regards,

    AsamLaksa

  1. says:

    Anonymous Dr Lim actually treated me as a kid til even a couple of yrs back,
    since his clinic is the closest to where i stay.

    when ur family doctor has so many untold stories...

    u really wonder,
    who, in the right frame of mind, would treat a gentleman like Dr Lim, like a prisoner for 20 yrs just to 'save face'

    the final irony,
    balestier belongs to the GRC of Tanjong Pajar, belonging to of course...dear MM Lee K.Y.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 9.38pm

    You sound very knowledgeable about the state of affairs. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I agree with you 100% that they were socialists but not communists.

    Vincent Cheng's case was most tragic indeed. A young promising man with a great future ahead and they had to pick on him.

    The Straits Times, 30th May 1987 reported that Vincent Cheng was a theology student turned Marxist. The attacks turned directly against a certain social current in the Church of which Vincent Cheng was the symbol. According to the communique there was a real “subversion” installed within the Church movements and propagated by a certain Catholic press. For the authorities, the harmful ideology which animated this “subversion” and which they called “Liberation Theology” was nothing other than a form of Marxism operating under cover of religion.

    Perhaps you or other Singaporeans could enlighten us here...

    Whatever the case, the fact remains that Singapore enjoys a better quality of life and standard of edu/tech/investment/medical facilities etc than Malaysians. Do swing by again and share more with us.

    Thanks so much. Take care and God bless you.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Asam Laksa @ 10.01pm

    Thanks for being compassionate, kind and considerate to the victims of the incarceration. I was also teary when watching the video and when writing the post. You are right in that both sides need closure and there is much emotional and spiritual healing to be effected.

    You have a very realistic picture of the bigger picture and I respect you for that.

    Take care and thanks so much for sharing from your heart.

    God bless you.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 10.06 p.m.

    You have a very interesting tale to tell. Perhaps you might want to share more with us and you can be sure I am all ears!

    Take care and God bless you.

    Keep in touch. Thanks!

  1. says:

    Oic I have been following the interesting exchanges here between MWS and Arthur A. I don't know whether the two of you are Singaporeans, if not, then I must take my hat off to the both of you for having a good grasp of sinkie politics.

    I must say I enjoyed the lively discussions and hope to be further enlightened! Please keep it up!

  1. says:

    Anonymous Politics is about the acquisition of power. To achieve that, the ends justify the means. From these two premises, it follows that the victor in a political battle writes history.

    LKY and DLHS knew what was at stake. LKY had the advantage of support from the very powerful Jewish/Anglo-Saxon world to contain the so-called communist/socialist threat to SEA at that time.

    Hence, LKY won and DLHS lost the struggle for power. In a war, human suffering is the fruit of defeat.

    LKY came to power with support from the "left" and turned "right" to consolidate it. In that sense, he was a shrewd politician.

    This is what it means by "power corrupts".

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear OIC

    Good morning! Thanks for reading this post, the comments and more importantly, for sharing your thoughts with us here.

    Arthur and I are Malaysians. We have never met before and he is one of my regular blog readers.

    I have a strong interest in political history and social developments of Asian countries because of my experience in education.

    Indeed the discussions have been very lively and enlightening. Thanks for the encouragement. I sincerely hope that more will participate in such exchanges.

    Please keep in touch. Have a good weekend.

  1. says:

    Hitam Had I also lament man's inhumanity to man as a means to justify the ends.

    However, surely one should not link the ISA to Operation Cold Store which was carried out before Singapore joined Malaysia; and which was said to be demanded by the British and Malayan Authorities before Malaysia came into being on 16/9/63.

    No doubt LKY's subsequent conduct will be analysed and debated even more after his demise.

    Pax.

  1. says:

    Anonymous Let's set the record straight. Lim Chin Siong, Chia Thye Poh or Dr Lim Hock Siew were never tried in court or allowed to defend themselves against the charges of communism. So what right does LKY have to incarcerate them?

    Am I to think, according to some of you here, that it is okay to bend the rule of law to our private purposes? The tyranny of the majority, negatively associated with democracies, has truly taken on a new meaning for me here. It would appear that even under benevolent dicatorships, we are not exempted from such follies. We call for equality only when we are disadvantaged.

    No wonder the Argentinian writer Jorge Luis Borges once said that dictatorships foster oppression, cruelty and idiocy.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 7.10 a.m.

    Wow!!!

    *stunned*

    What a brilliant comment you have shared with us! Clear, precise, succinct and spot on.

    Thank you very much for sharing with us your views. Please feel free to enlighten us with your deep understanding and knowledge of the issues at hand.

    Take care and please keep in touch. Have a good weekend and God bless you.

  1. says:

    Anonymous Some revelations on Operation Coldstore here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coldstore

    Malaya had a strong anti-communist policy. During the Malayan Emergency, Malaya managed to contain communist influence. However, the communists had substantial influence in Singapore. Fearing a communist resurgency, the Malayan Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman insisted that Singapore round up all pro-communists before the merger occurred. Despite Lee Kuan Yew's initial objection, the British and the Malayans cast the decisive ballots at the Internal Security Council to launch the opration.

    However, with new archives opened up in London, evidence linking Lim Chin Siong and Barisan Sosialis to be communist seems vague at best. In other words, there was no direct evidence linking Lim Ching Siong and Barisan Sosialis to communist ideas.

    Furthermore, according to Mathew Jones' article, Operation Coldstore was more a barter deal as Tunku Abdul Rahman stated that he would not take in Singapore if the Borneo Territories were not given up by the British and if there was no detention of the radical leftists in Singapore.

  1. says:

    nick Hi Sis,
    Only managed to read your blog today and was very surprised with the lively discourse on the LKY and ISA in S'pore.
    It would seem to me there's not much difference between Malaysia and S'pore in term of justifying the use of ISA. I think most of us forget that we are supposedly living in a democratic nation or are we all subscribing to the MahaMonster's notion of too much democracy?
    Democracy is based on the most sacred tenet of personal liberty and freedom without exception. If we start modifying the main principle of democracy then we are setting a bad precedent for future generation to follow. As a simple rule I always believe "Matlamat tidak menghalalkan cara".
    A quote by St Augustine "in the absence of justice what is sovereignty but organized robbery" is most telling but with regard of ISA I think "in the absence of justice what is a democracy but an elected tyranny" would be most appropriate. For those who supported ISA in S'pore, they must realize that they have lost the moral ground to champion justice and democracy in Malaysia. You can't denounce ISA and the abuse of law in Malaysia and then defend LKY use of ISA at the same time. There's no middle ground whatsoever on this issue. There is NO DOUBLE STANDARD IN DEMOCRACY AND IN JUSTICE. PERIOD.

    Have a great day, SIS.

    Hamba.
    Both nation might have progressed materially but society wise.. still much to be desired. It's akin to a wealthy person with questionable moral and principle. Would you live with that person??? Most would live to regret it later.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Hitam Had/Pax @ 9.33 a.m.

    I am deeply saddened when I think of leaders who do not hesitate to carry out inhumane acts to further their objectives and later have the audacity to justify their 'crimes'.

    Growing up between the 'then' and 'now', it is only with this accidental post that a whole new horizon has been opened to me and I am beginning to put together the pictures of the puzzles called Malaysia and Singapore.

    Truly, things are not as simple as they seem...

    And the exciting part is that all of us CAN make that difference about the kind of future that awaits us and our descendants IF we stand up to be counted.

    God bless you.

    -------------------------

    Dear Anonymous @ 9.39am,

    Many thanks for your hard-hitting comment and observation. I stand with you in this issue.

    I cannot understand how some, especially leaders, do not realize or refuse to acknowledge that the very fact that these people have been deprived of their right to trial and have the audacity to insist that what was done was for the good of the nation. The maxim of innocent until proven guilty should be a guiding light. Worse still, some paid the price with decades of their lives in prison!!! And they were innocent, a few, victims of the system who orchestrated the unending drama. The silence of many has exacerbated the scenario.

    I applaud your passion for truth and human rights. Please feel free to rant here, more importantly, to share with us your gems of knowledge. God bless you.

    ------------------

    Dear Anonymous @ 9.45a.m.

    Thank you very much for sharing with us the historical details which are so vital in helping us to see the bigger picture of things.
    Do keep in touch and please feel free enlighten us further.

    God bless you.

    -------------------------

    Dear Nick,

    Thanks so much for your very deep and profound comments that you have shared with us. You have given this post and the comments much careful thought and consideration and I appreciate the effort you put in to enrich the exchange here.

    The term 'elected tyranny' is, sadly, so apt and ironically true. And the rest of us have to mourn in passively, painfully of the folly of those who are blinded to vote wrongly. :-(

    I applaud your firm grip on democratic principles. Hand in hand, I echo your stand that there must be no double standards in democracy and justice. Period!

    Take care, saudara Nick. May the Almighty continue to bless all of us and the nations that we belong to.

  1. says:

    Anonymous It is illuminating to read about the acquisition of power and wealth in the book, "Asian Godfathers". From the review in Asia Sentinel, there is a section on LKY:

    "The best-known case study is Lee Kuan Yew, a tycoon of sorts by virtue of the fact that he nationalized and ran much of Singapore’s economy after 1959. Lee had an English education, attending the √©lite Raffles Institution and Raffles College in Singapore as well as Cambridge University (institutions that educated various Malaysian and Singaporean tycoons-to-be, including Robert Kuok and Quek Leng Chan). Back then he was called Harry Lee. In 1967 he told an audience in the United States: ‘I am no more a Chinese than President Kennedy was an Irishman.’


    But as Singapore became prosperous and China began to open up in the 1980s, Lee became ever more exercised in explaining his city state’s success in terms of Confucian culture and ‘Asian’ values. He had learned Mandarin and Hokkien Chinese in the late 1950s and early 1960s as he framed his popular political persona, and the identity of Harry Lee was buried. In its place came the Lee Kuan Yew who warned Singaporean students in 1986 that they must never lose ‘their Confucian tendencies to coalesce around the middle ground, that day we become just another Third World society’.


    As the historian of the overseas Chinese Lynn Pan has written: ‘The remaking of Singapore in the Confucian image is in some ways a larger embodiment of a personal enracinement.’ Lee’s identity odyssey has seen him become increasingly enamored of the kind of racist eugenic theories that were popular in Edwardian England.

    He set up a state matchmaking agency in Singapore, the Social Development Unit, to help pair off mates of similar intelligence, and argued for a return to the upper-class polygamy of traditional Chinese society.


    Lynn Pan refers to journalist T. J. S. George’s observation that ‘he detected in Lee the insecurity of a man alienated from his Chinese moorings, a man who, because he does not quite belong anywhere, has had to remake Singapore in his own image to compensate for his own alienation’."

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 11.45 a.m.

    I am deeply indebted to you for opening another window for us to understand the multi-faceted nature of LKY's psyche that has driven him to where he is in life.

    Too often, we forget to consider that aspect and also the sociological factors that have affected one's passion, purpose and even policies in governance.

    Much as I hate to admit it (I know Arthur will be doing a jig when he reads this!!!), he is one of the most brilliant politicians with such a sharp mind that is very forward thinking, even in this twilight years.

    An erudite and learned mind, not forgetting his many other giftings, has enabled him to chart unconquered territories in political, social and economic reforms. I can imagine the drive and persistence he must have had (and probably still has) to steer Singapore to be what it is and more.

    No human is without failings and we see before us a man. who despite his weaknesses, has done more than what most of us could ever dream.

    But the question that remains is - at what expense?

    One has to think also of the opportunity cost of his decisions with regards to his family, his loved ones, innocent people and others who could not match his standards, etc etc???

    Perhaps that is a question that readers from Singapore can answer to enlighten us.

    Thanks again for gracing my blog with your eloquent contributions.

    Have a good day and God bless you.

  1. says:

    Anonymous The rationalisation for LKY's cruel and unusual treatment of political opponents was that it was a necessary evil. Communists, unionists etc were out to destabilise the country. But this argument does not stand up to scrutiny. LKY himself had admitted that much social unrest in singapore was a result of agent provacateur from indonesia and the maria hertog incident was an incitement by umno (looks like umno had not changed its spots). The question was and still remain why did he go after all the barisan socialist political opponents ?

    Powerful people rising to power or trying to remain in power had over the history of man used what they called false flags operation. They either use an event or engineered one so that they could get at the real objective. Operation coldstore was an easy way to get rid of the opponent by tarring and feathering them and then give yourself the legitimate excuse to incarcerate them.

    LKY was a brute - a cruel and unfeeling power obsessed individual.

    The marxist's conspiracy arrest or operation spectrum could be read more here :

    http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/05/operation-spectrum-was-political-rape/

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 5.02 p.m.

    Thanks for that powerful comment that leaves me with many unanswered questions which I hope you may answer one day in another comment. I will check out that site after I post my response.

    I suspect he went after them because he knew that they were/are sincere individuals who genuinely had the welfare of Singapore in their hearts and that they were a serious threat in future elections because a high percentage of the electorate would rally behind these good men. I could be wrong...

    I have no doubt that he is what you have said.

    Ironically, LKY and TDM came from the same cohort in NUS. It would be interesting to study what these two shared in common that made them the sort of characters that they became in their later lives! Was there any common life-changing incident or factors or people who influenced them to manifest such evil ways? The bloodthirsty desire for domination, subjugation, manipulation etc...

    Golly! Malaysia and Singapore are siblings in suffering where such political plots are concerned.

    *sighs*

    It is only now that my eyes have been opened and the scales of propaganda have fallen from my eyes and I can see things as they were and are.

    I wonder who were and are the external forces at work/play then and whether they still have a hand in the game now.

    Can anyone out there enlighten us?

  1. says:

    A Arthur To OIC and readers:
    I am a Malaysian and I do not even hold a Sin PR. The reason why I so admired LKY is the way he governed Sin since independence. How he ascended the throne was history, as a politician must be cunning and ruthless to stay in power. Those young Singaporeans may not appreciate the dark days of Singapore at the time when it ceded from Malaysia. I too was young but even at that time I have heard enough. But how he governed Sin was all that matters and in any countries there were be dissents, rebels and oppositions. He did not abuse the highest office for his own personal gains and enriched himself. He and his family too lead a simple life. When he stepped down as PM most of his mementos from other countries collected over the years as PM were donated away or auctioned off for the benefit of the state. Such is the honesty and love for his country of this Great Man.

    Many may say that he should retire but all of us know that the day he dies will be the day he retires. And often I said onto myself : the day he dies I will shed copious tears for here lies a statesman of great integrity, pragmatism, intellect, charm, charisma, forward thinking, industrious and determination and whose life is bigger than any and all his contemporaries. On the contrary our TDM also never retires. When he stepped down as PM all he did was to throw spanners into the works of our former PM and sprewed venom on to anything he disagreed.

    I am a Chinese Malaysian and I am sure most of you readers are aware of the politics in Malaysia. In spite of 52 years of independence, Malaysia's politics are spiked with racism, rampant corruption, quota-system, cronynism, rhetorics, over-stayed politicians, Keturunan Melayu, party infighting and many more 'isms' and ills that beset the ruling party. I am not saying that other countries do not have these problems but over the years they have matured but Malaysia is retrograding behind. I have the ability to immigrate but I choose to stay and hope forlornly that one day Malaysia would be able to follow at least the shadow of Singapore in the treatment of her citizens that all are born equal.

    To the reader Anonymous, you may be at the receiving end of LKY's ruthlessness and I am not sure of your beef. It maybe one of unfairness meted to you or your family but when great men clashes one will be the victor while the defeated will have to suffer the consequences. If you are the defeated then I sympathized and empathized you. I read what you wrote and I cannot find any arguments against it. Surely one can say that the other pasture is greener but whether you are a Singaporean Chinese, Malay or Indian count your blessings.

  1. says:

    Anonymous Dear MWS,

    I see that amorality is very much a quality that is present in the thoughts and comments of many Lee
    supporters. The usual, ends justify the means tripe, that passes for an
    intellectual discussion in the minds of the apologists for tyranny.It applies as much to Hitler as it does to any Asian political thug. So while we are in a forgiving mood,let's say every thug has a justification for his
    brutality. And the last thug standing gets away.

    Syed Zahari, another victim of Lee's grandiose ambitions, put it
    more succinctly, Lee is a coward and a collaborator (with the British).
    MWS, You are right about Dr.Lim
    Hock Siew, Chia Thye Poh and Said
    Zahari. They are honourable men and
    they do stand head and shoulders above Lee. He is slime.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 10.13pm

    Your comment:

    I see that amorality is very much a quality that is present in the thoughts and comments of many Lee supporters. The usual, ends justify the means tripe, that passes for an intellectual discussion in the minds of the apologists for tyranny.

    is superb! You hit the nail on the head there.

    Those innocent victims paid a very high price for their beliefs and principles and despite all the sufferings, they remain steadfast to all that means the world to them.

    And indeed, they are the stuff that great men are made of.

    Thanks for taking the time to share...

    Take care and God bless you and yours.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Arthur,

    Thanks for your earnest comment and points of clarification.

    I appreciate that you are a regular blog reader but I have to point out once again that your understanding of LKY is most deficient and distorted. There are fallacies in your first paragraph and I nearly had a serious cardiac arrest when reading your second paragraph. I am truly astounded that despite the many learned exchanges here, you still hold steadfastly to your perception of LKY. He may still be throwing spanners into the works and wheel but not in the same way as TDM.

    Still, I respect your views and appreciate your openness to share most candidly.

    Take care and do keep in touch.

    Enjoy the rest of the evening.

  1. says:

    Anonymous I agree with Arthur A's thinking because I too have great respect for LKY. In my opinion both LKY and DLHS are equally principled men but having different road map for Singapore at that time. Each seems adamant about the choice of vehicle to drive and develop Singapore. I agree it is inhuman to detain a person for difference of opinion for that long! That LKY will account for that himself with his Maker because we do not know the whole story and neither can we know the motives of the heart. Nevertheless good thing Singapore became what it is today because of LKY. I don't mind having him as our PM anytime

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 12.24a.m.

    Thanks for your honest comment. Regardless of whatever doubts I have, I have to say that if we had a PM with his drive, I am sure we would be in a different plain of existence today.

    Take care and have a good weekend. Please stay in touch.

    Cheers

  1. says:

    Anonymous Its not too late for LKY to be more compassionate. That if he does will swing the pendulum to the centre right.

    Singapore enjoy almost the entire cream of Malaysian who are english fluent. The Chinese educated make their way up to Taiwan and some choose to stay back in MU.

    LKY got the right policy then, but today he can,t get anymore of those malaysian who are now heading to Aust and Canada.
    There they can keep their Malaysian passport and live like an aussie.

    The Policy of mandantory requirement of Malaysian giving up their birth place rigth is obsolute. In fact that draining of Malaysian resource from Malaysia may even backfire Singapore. Compassion is what we need here.

    We should encourage dual citizenship with today,s globalise planet we live in.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 2.17 a.m.

    Thank you for your very realistic, compassionate and humane response. I fully agree with your comments and applaud your pragmatism in your perspective. The dual citizenship is an ideal that I hope can be made real one day but given the circumstances, I acknowledge that it would be a tall order indeed.

    Take care and do keep in touch.

  1. says:

    Anonymous Arthur your comment speaks volumes of what you stand for and you have my respect as a exMalayan/Malaysaian now Singaporean.Should you be apolitical,may I suggest you join DAP who shares your vision but having an uphill task.However, with an Oldie like Tunku Aziz in the fold a man I greatly respect,the wind of change for a better Malaysia may come sooner than you think and who knows with a re-merger and return of all the lost talent A MALAYSIAN MALAYSIA will be TRULY ASIA.One last word,just ignore the negative rhetorics its vexation to the mind.

  1. says:

    Anonymous LKY's political opponenets in the early days had ideals no doubt and stood by them till today.Great leaders should they had won???built a better Singapore than what it is today or par???
    Mahathir had IDEALS,Sukarno had IDEALS & MORE,Marcos had IDEALS,HO Chi Min had IDEALS Bhutto had IDEALS the list can go on. END RESULTS SPEAK FOR ITSELF PERIOD

  1. says:

    Unknown Hello Peter and MWS, thank you for your comment. You must be that gentleman eating the icecream as shown in MWS blog.

    Yeah, I am a great fan of Tuanku Azis. I read all these posts. He writes well, full of facts, solid arguments and he is ahead of his times. Unlike those of the ruling regime, there are full of hot air and rhetorics, full of thunder but no rain.

    I am too old for politics. I am just an arm-chair critics and just write some small time comments. I stumbled upon this blog a few months ago and I find it very interesting. MWS has the passion to follow through every comment and her writing is superb.

    I do hope Malaysia has more bloggers like MWS. These little voices are heard all over the world and it would be these small voices that would be raised to a cresendo and make Malaysia a better place to live. I am sorry that I did not contribute anything at all.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Peter,
    Ha Ha, as for me I am quite used to people attacking me when I speak so fondly of LKY. And I clearly make no bones about LKY. Why, is he your father, they asked. Or have you benefitted in any way from him or the Lee family. I said onto them: None of the above.I have not even meet face to face the Great Man himself or even one of his family members.

    I travel widely in the course of my business and have the opportunities to meet many professional Singaporeans. Wnenever I meet any youngster Singaporean I will always engage him on LKY himself and gauge his/her thoughts. Though I would not say that I know everything about LKY, I know enough to engage in a meaningful debate and discourse. And often I reminded these youngsters that Singapore will not be what she is today if
    not for LKY's single minded determination and focus to transform Singapore from third world to first world country. Yes, LKY may have erred some over his 30 years as PM but one must always remember that hindsight is 20/20 vision. Those were dangerous times and if a leader would act with too much compassion and adhered to all the tenets of democracy as in the book,Singapore would not survive.

    I honestly enjoyed this exchange very well. I am not sure of how many Singaporeans are engaged here but I am not here to give advise. I just wanted to say if we will to delve in history there may be more issues than meet the eyes. One can say that history is written by the victorious but in this internet age a lot of thoughts and opinions can be sounded on forums and discussions like this MWS blog, which I must say is an excellent one, as I believe MWS will publish any comments being made. Cheers to all Malaysians and Singaporeans. May we work together on a personal level and never allow race, religion and politics to divide us.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Peter @ 11.09am and 12.49pm

    Thanks so much for sharing your comments and for your encouraging message to Arthur who is an endearing character.

    You are right in that LKY, despite his weaknessed, has results to show for his ideals and that is something that will go down in history books...

    Take care and God bless you.

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Arthur

    What a lovely sincere comment you have left with us. Very thoughtful, sensitive and mature. Certainly, you have drawn it to a lovely finish. It has been a very intellectually and enriching exchange and thanks so much for contributing from your heart.

    God bless and keep you and yours, Arthur.

  1. says:

    Murali Dear Paula,

    Wow to your post!

    WOW to the numerous mind-blowing comments and rich banter!

    Wonderful read, every word & every comment.Kept me at the edge of my seat..

    :)

    Don't let that keyboard rest.

    Mumu

  1. says:

    Unknown My dear Mumu,

    You are very lucky, my friend, for you are the 100th commenter!!!

    Thanks for the encouragement and validating statements. Most of all, thanks for ploughing through the post and the many comments.

    Take care and catch up again real soon!

    Hugs

  1. says:

    Anonymous hello,
    i live in singapore and i would like to draw attention to the following:
    http://sgblogs.com/entry/dendrobium-thein-sein-spore-orchid-named-after-myanmar-junta-leader/327708

    and

    http://www.singsupplies.com/showthread.php?t=21715

    in april this year singapore actually named an orchid in honour of Prime Minister of Myanmar General Thein Sein. After all that happened in 2007 (the monks peaceful protest and their brutal beatings by the JUnta)and Aung Sann Su Kyi, they can actually do this. We all know that this move has definitly been condoned by LKY himself. So what does this say about him?
    He has even said that the Chinese govt did the right thing in Tiannamen Sq. back in the 90s. See the hypocrisy... accusing he's political rivals as pro communists.

    Like MWS mentioned, LKY and TDM were both from the same university. both actively involved in the University Socialist club at one time or rather. Hell, LKY was also an advisor to this club when he left the university.

    at the end of the day it's just money and power that matters here....

    dharma

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 8.14pm aka Dharma

    Thanks so much for your comment and the links you shared which opened a whole new world to me.

    I am very curious as to why this LKY and TDM are so ruthless. Something must have happened in uni days to make them have this mercenary go-get-it-all streak. Who were the influences?? Does anyone know? My friend's dad was their varsity mate but sadly, he died 3 years ago.

    What you have shared tells us that he stinks to the heavens!!! In fact, my afternoon post today was also sth along that line..called "Get ready to Puke".

    This is very sad when we have hypocritical mercenary leaders parading themselves as gifts from above to people.

    *Sighs*

    Take care and thanks for swinging by.

    Have a pleasant evening.

    Shalom

  1. says:

    Anonymous One of the oft-repeated argument that LKY's heavy-handed treatment of his political foes was justified by the obvious prosperity and development that singapore had enjoyed. But beneath such a veneer of prosperity and vibrancy lies an unspoken and much swept under the carpet truth. Vagrancy is frown upon and the homeless are very quickly swept of the streets.

    I distribute food to the poor in singapore and I do know what some of them are going through.

    When LHL tabled a blll to introduce GST he proudly proclaimed that 80% of the singaporean workforce do not pay tax. One MP rightly pointed out that this could only mean that large proportion of the citizens were poor and the government was even considering taxing the poor to further enrich herself. Almost every year the singapore government turned in obscene level of surpluses to be squandered off by LKY, Ho ching and few of their minions in temasek holding.

    For a peep under the hood and all the glitz and glitter check out :

    http://yoursdp.org/index.php/truth-about/poverty-in-singapore

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Anonymous @ 11.12pm

    Thanks so much for your timely comment to show life on the other side and to tell it like it is.

    Are you the owner of that website? Can I extract it and put it in my blog and then add a Click here to read more to your blog?

    Please alert me from now and then when there are excellent articles like this one. The story must be shared and more must be aware of what is really happening. Isn't it strange that Singapore and Malaysia has so many similarities?

    Take care and have a lovely weekend. Please keep in touch.

    Peace and blessings be unto you,
    mws

  1. says:

    Kaki Tambak Paula,

    I wanted add some thoughts on the discusion here, but it was a bit long. So I ended putting a piece on my blog.

    Part of it:
    "Opressive rule thrives in society that over-relies on its leaders and governments. Its sort of like a test of character and maturity of state.
    Is a society too dependent on its leaders to work things out for them?
    Or does masses play the leading role by moving together to find a way out of the mess?"

    The rest is at http://tambakjohor.blogspot.com/2009/11/isa-draconian-means-to-benovalent-ends.html

  1. says:

    Unknown Dear Kaki Tambak

    Thanks for a very articulate and objective post. Please feel free to leave your post in here because I believe it is relevant to the discussion. I would be greatly honored if you could share it with us here. If possible, could you link your blog post with this post? I do not know how to do it:-(. Thanks for dropping by. Take care and please keep in touch.

    Cheers

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